Sports Arbitrage Discussion Forum - CSI Arbitrage ***SCAM***

aegist
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CSI Arbitrage ***SCAM***
« on: Sep 4^th, 2007, 10:34pm »

This company has been mentioned several times around the place, particularly in relation to the Gold Coast scams theme, but it hasn't been mentioned here as a real alert service yet. I have started researching things a bit and after a demo of their software and a long conversation with Alan Newton, i don't think these guys are scamming anyone.
(Edit: 2 Years after making this post, and thanks to a regular assault by this company against me personally, and any other critics of their operation, an investigation has indeed revealed that they really are a scam. You can't say I didn't give them a fair go. Repeatedly. But crooks will be crooks I guess. http://shanegreenup.com/2010/06/the-truth-about-ozripoff-csi-arbitrage-and-shane -greenup/)

Now before I get shouted down (because yes, they are charging $17,600 for software, and yes they are from around the Gold Coast) I was hoping to hear from anyone who has actually bought this software, or anyone who uses this as an employee of IAS (their trading firm) as well as hear from anyone who feels they have been ripped off or anything like that.

Alan seems extremely willing to do whatever it takes to prove that CSI is completely legit and above board, so if anyone has any ideas as to what they could do to prove that they are ripping people off or exploiting people (running a scam), then suggest them.

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« Last Edit: Jun 4^th, 2010, 5:38pm by aegist »

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mike_cool
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #1 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 2:45am »

Aegist,

First question I have is why on earth do they charge so much for their software and if it is so great then why would they not let someone here trial it for a month or so as apposed to showing you a demo with a highly trained salesman on the phone trying to manipulate the conversation!

Also if it is so great then why are they selling it Full stop!!!

They claim to manipulate the markets by betting 50k on one side and then waiting for the bookie to adjust their odds and then bet on the other side as the bookie would now make the other team the favorite, sounds good in theory but I dont think the bookie will make the outsider a favorite because of a measly 50k...

Also I have had my uncle look into these guys before and they have everything registered to a house in a residential area! How can you outlay $17,600 to someone who cant even afford a commercial premises!!!

And lastly Forlon Hope has made a valid point in an earlier thread about Gold Coast Scams that a company cant claim to floate until certain criteria is met, which this company is a long way away from. Therefore lying to potential clients about a great investment which may never happen!

Now I know you have put them in this thread to see if anyone is actually using their software but I think you will find the only people who will post will be shills from this organisation, because even the greatest of fools wont pay nearly 18k for some software!!! Unless they have really super snake-slick salesmen, and if thats the case then it trully points to scam as if they are legitimet then why hire top salesmen as the product should sell itself!!

Mike

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aegist
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #2 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:23am »

Quote from mike_cool on Sep 5^th, 2007, 2:45am:

Aegist,

First question I have is why on earth do they charge so much for their software and if it is so great then why would they not let someone here trial it for a month or so as apposed to showing you a demo with a highly trained salesman on the phone trying to manipulate the conversation!

I have actually spoken to them about this, and they are willing. If BoyOwen, or Jenx, or Tribet or one of the other long standing members of ArbForum trialed the software, do you think it would change anything?

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mike_cool
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #3 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:25am »

While i'm still on the subject, they have a marketing glossy brochure available.. here are some quotes on it...

The computer highlights the investment, a mere ‘click’ and the investment is made!

It is Impossible to lose!!

The $2,000 is a free offer it is a contractual arrangement between the two companies!
Through normal trading it will increase to the minimum of $16,000, you can then cash in or opt to invest it in our listed company, either way its profit, profit, profit!!

Does this even sound remotly as a legitimit corporation, I think not, they claim your $2k is guaranteed to reach a minnimun of $16,000. wow guaranteing the future, is that not illegal?

They say that the deal is a contractual agreement between the two companies... this is laughable as they are run by the same people!! They (CSI) also claim to have been selected by IAS to be their marketing arm and they have every confidence in the company. Another joke as IAS were only established in March while CSI were established in Feb, both from MUDGEERABA on the Gold Coast in QLD. Funny how they just bumpped into each other.

Also the address they use is false, it is a virtual office.

Stay away is my opinion

Mike

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ww88
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #4 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:25am »

The software could genuinely be worth $18k. If I could put my arbing knowlege into a software format I think it would be worth a good deal more than that.

I'm not trying to support them, but if I showed you my formulas, then you would know how I made my money so what would the point be in you paying for them. Maybe that is why they do not trial the software. I also would not give a guarantee because I know what I do works so if someone has the money to pay for it but not the brain to implement it then tough.

The $50k theory is quite interesting. If you had a lot of money and threw it at the right bookmaker or exchange you could definitely create a lot of movement, particularly on certain games such as Italian Serie B or tennis. Although it would be unusual to change an outsider to a favourite (and not at all necessary to create an arb), I and many others have seen this done.

That said, I have not looked at the website and imagine that it is not worth the money!

ww

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aegist
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #5 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:39am »

Thanks for your point of view ww.

The impression that I am getting from my conversations with people at CSI is really that what you are paying for...is almost membership to the club. It is more than just the software, it is the software plus professional trader knowledge. I have seen the software twice now, and it is better than anything on the market...but not that much better. Its just got a few more tweeks in it. That being said, i haven't had a chance to use it to test the quality of arbs, the reliability etc myself, but that isn't very difficult anyway.

However the idea which I am basically being sold on with CSI is that the cost is basically buying into the community that they have. You are buying full time support with a group of professional traders who will work their arses off to make you exceedingly successful by telling you every secret they know.

ww says that he thinks buying software which works, with his knowledge would probably be worth more than what they charge. So, assuming CSI is doing just that, then maybe the price is justified?

From my discussions, I am reasonably happy that they aren't scamming people. They say that they don't cold call (although one person has said that he was contacted by them without having heard of them), and they do provide information on arbitrage before they make the sale (they link to SAG on their site, and they tell people about the other options). So I am tending to believe what they say. Also, one more reason why I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt is because I simply haven't encountered any disgruntled customers yet. Usually if there is a problem with a company, people will complain about it quick smart. These guys have been around for quite a while and I have heard no complaints yet. I hadn't heard of AusSoft and people came out of the woodwork complaining about them...

I'm certainly not recommending anyone buy CSI, but I don't want to just condemn them because they are doing something different.

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ww88
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arb on!

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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #6 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:42am »

Quote from aegist on Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:39am:

Thanks for your point of view ww.

However the idea which I am basically being sold on with CSI is that the cost is basically buying into the community that they have. You are buying full time support with a group of professional traders who will work their arses off to make you exceedingly successful.

Sounds like a load of wank to me. As mulder said - 'Trust Noone' . If you can't work it out yourself, you should probably leave arbing alone anyway.

ww

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aegist
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #7 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:47am »

Quote from mike_cool on Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:25am:

While i'm still on the subject, they have a marketing glossy brochure available.. here are some quotes on it...

The computer highlights the investment, a mere ‘click’ and the investment is made!

It is Impossible to lose!!

The $2,000 is a free offer it is a contractual arrangement between the two companies!
Through normal trading it will increase to the minimum of $16,000, you can then cash in or opt to invest it in our listed company, either way its profit, profit, profit!!

I definitely think the "It is impossible to lose" is misleading and they should change that.

I found out today that it isn't really one click anyway. They are currently putting in the ability to click one button and have it take you to the confirmation pages, but they are working on one bookmaker at a time, and only have the top few bookmakers atm. So it is one click, then check and confirm. That being said though, it is actually better that way than one click all done, because you have a chance to check for errors before submitting.

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mike_cool
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #8 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 7:05am »

Quote from aegist on Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:39am:

However the idea which I am basically being sold on with CSI is that the cost is basically buying into the community that they have. You are buying full time support with a group of professional traders who will work their arses off to make you exceedingly successful by telling you every secret they know.

What backround have they got in arbitrage that merits them to charge sooo much for their experiance??? If they were so called pro's then surly they (or should I say the person working out of their house) would have become a member here a long time ago!!!

And why would they work thier arses off to make you succesfull when they already have your hard earned cash!!!

Why not train you first and then if your not completly happy with the service there will be no fee, like all reputible training companies!!! Not a staggering $17,600 upfront.

And what secrets do they have, if its anything like the 50k one they mention (on an England v Australia test match too!!!) I think id rather not know.

Either they are doing a really good sales pitch on you Aegist or your getting a backhander Wink

Mike

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M.O
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #9 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 7:57am »

Quote from aegist on Sep 5^th, 2007, 3:39am:

...I have seen the software twice now, and it is better than anything on the market...That being said, i haven't had a chance to use it to test the quality of arbs, the reliability etc myself, but that isn't very difficult anyway...

You actually didnt test the trades and you are already saying it is the best on the market?!

Anyway IMO this whole idea of 17K arb service is just designed for rather wealthy retards.

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aegist
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #10 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 8:15am »

Quote from mike_cool on Sep 5^th, 2007, 7:05am:

Either they are doing a really good sales pitch on you Aegist or your getting a backhander Wink

I'm just trying to be fair rather than knee-jerk.

Quote from M.O on Sep 5^th, 2007, 7:57am:

You actually didnt test the trades and you are already saying it is the best on the market?!

I haven't used it, but I have seen something of a demonstration. So based on the assumption that they aren't lying directly to me, then what the software does is more sophisticated than any other software i have seen.
Quote from M.O on Sep 5^th, 2007, 7:57am:

Anyway IMO this whole idea of 17K arb service is just designed for rather wealthy retards.

I can't disagree with that.

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natal
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #11 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 8:23am »

I am sure many of u heard of the "Puppy dog" sale technique

So they must give us a trial of 1-2 months and if it is sooooooooooo good (i.e. we make so much money), we will not let it go or will pay any sensible price to keep it.

A high price never worried, if the stuff is worth it I will pay... but I will never pay in advance for an unknown.

What worries me is - why such a high price upfront and not something like $500 per month, which will give them revenue for life. The worry is do they want to make a quick buck and run or be with us in the long run and develop it further with us.

If they want my business they can send me a PM and I am in but I have to see the value and I will be prepared to pay much more than I am paying if the value is there.

If the new software generate for me $5000 per month more than I am making now I will gladly pay $500 pm.

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jazzmonkey
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #12 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 9:05am »

The only value I can see in this is if it places arbs while I sleep - for with little or no risk. While it is extremely unlikely that software can be made to do this I dont think it is impossible.

However for the kind of cash that they are asking, as others are mentioning, there has to be some kind of free or low cost trial. If it delivers what it promises then I dont mind forking out a bit of cash to give it a test, but it would have to be me testing it, it is no good giving out one or 2 freebies to "established members" - I am sure you are all great and lovely but I want to see it myself.

17k is just an unrealistic figure - as natal said it smacks of take as much cash as possible and then run away to the outback.

Aegist - would you be able to elaborate a little bit more on how it works?

One further thing - the throwing 50k at a market has been used to good effect in recent weeks on tennis markets (smaller events). Am sure a lot of you have noticed strange price movements, and while there have undoubtedly been a few fixed games, there have been others where the actual match bears no relation to the huge price swings that have gone previously. Intelligent people have been betting lots of money, manipulating the markets and causing panic.

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Jontheman
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Re: CSI Arbitrage
« Reply #13 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 11:40am »

The impression that I am getting from my conversations with people at CSI is really that what you are paying for...is almost membership to the club. It is more than just the software, it is the software plus professional trader knowledge. I have seen the software twice now, and it is better than anything on the market...but not that much better. Its just got a few more tweeks in it. That being said, i haven't had a chance to use it to test the quality of arbs, the reliability etc myself, but that isn't very difficult anyway.

Aegist. As someone whose opinions and work in the area I respect I have to be blunt and say your naivety in giving these people the time of day is almost astonishing. With the ongoing rumblings about almost identical scams, the residential address, the high upfront fee; the misleading quotes and outright lies; the cold-calling; and on. I appreciate your integrity for trying to give them a fair chance, but if it looks and smells like a turd....

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natal Seymours Lovechild Member Posts: 1409 Reputation: 17 Gender:	Re: CSI Arbitrage « Reply #14 - on: Sep 5^th, 2007, 12:57pm » Aegist, I respect your judgement after seeing these guys twice and I am happy to give it a try if throw in a trial of 1-2 months... If it is worth it I will commit to a monthly contract even if it twice as expensive at the other service providers... But I need to see value first, payment comes second.
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