Sports Arbitrage Discussion Forum - New Juicetrading.com Arb Program

JuiceTrading
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New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 10:43am »

Hi:

I am the owner of Juicetrading.com and we have started a new arbitrage alert program. We currently offering a FREE 1 week trial period. After the 1 week, you can purchase the program if you like our services. We do not charge any monthly fees for our Basic Program.

Please give us a try and provide any comments or feedbacks that you may have. As an experienced trader, I can also provide tips, suggestions, and answer any questions that you may have.

Thank,
Thanh
Juicetrading.com

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mga62
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #1 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:24am »

When referring to having user names and passwords you say the following:-

"Can you think why we would want that information? Yeah, we can steal your information and make crazy bets, but then what? We can't cash-out the winnings. And why would we want to? We have so much more to lose from stealing your information with very little to gain. In other words, we're not that dumb"

Can you explain a little further on this statement, should you win with that money you made crazy bets with the original deposit has to be refunded to the method it was deposited (most books any way but even then not all) the winnings however, can be withdrawn to whichever account you might set up for the purpose.)

I am not saying this is the case with you I would just like some further explanation.

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adamvallin
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #2 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:28am »

your bookie list is very very limited:

Pinnacle
Canbet
Olympic
betWWTS
BetCris
BetJamaica
CaribSports
Bowmans
Intertops

do not try the stuff you have on the site here..
"Unlike other softwares that bombard you with over 100 sportsbook, we have narrowed our list down to the sportsbooks that offer a consistent high volume of arbs on America Sports."
sure, high volume of arbs is good, but is there anything special about american sports .. ? no. you are offering a limited service and that is a shame because you seem like a good company otherwise. what plans of including more books and sports do you have? and btw, bowmans and intertops aren't the first books i would choose if i was to limit the number of books to 9..

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Strat
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #3 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:33am »

Pricing is very confusing. If you select from main menu, you will be shown a page that says the price for basic product is $99 and there is no monthly fee.

If you select products -> pricing, oops, we seem to have a monthly fee after all.

Very, very confusing. Have you really sorted out yourself the pricing? I think if you are serious to business this is one of the main factors. Maybe Natal can give some opinions here Wink

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JuiceTrading
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #4 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 12:12pm »

Hopefully, I can address all of the problems:

Strat: Sorry about that. The information you read were old. The price is still $99.99 for the software. http://www.juicetrading.com/prices.php

adamvallin: We chose to limit our bookies on purpose for the following reason.
1) We only want quality books on our program that are reliable. We decided on our list based on 2 criterias - a) Ratings by other sites & b) amounts of arbs ... Bowmans used to provide a high volume of arbs, but it appears they have been bought out by bet365. So as I am typing, we are taking them off the list since their lines are no longer as favorable.

2) As a trader, you do not want to constantly move your funds around and face all the problems with it. So instead of spreading your funds thin throughout so many books, we want our users to just focus on the few that are highly rated.

We chose to keep our program dedicated to American Sports only because it makes it simple for the traders. You do not have to worry about rule interpretations or different rules from different books, such as Tennis. You also only have to worry about 2-way arb bets instead of 3-way. Plus, this will be important once we release our Pro Version, which I can't release any details right now.

Of course, we are always adding more books and will be adding other sports as well. However, we try to be selective in our books and only add those that are recommended by other arbitrageurs or those with a high level of customer service. Next in line of books to be added is Will Hill and Betcascade. But if there are other books that you would like to see, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO ASK.

mga62: We designed our program to get the most accurate lines. Some books post different lines for guest vs members (Bodog for example). So in order to get the most accurate lines for you, our program logs into the member account to retrireve the lines. This means that you will have to store your information on our program in order to do so. Naturally, users will have doubts because no one wants to take any chances of their accounts being stolen. So we try our best to assure customers that their information is safe.

Since the program rests and runs on your desktop, it is only accessbile by you on your computer. Our program does not retrieve or access those information in anyway.

If anyone has anymore feedbacks, please feel free to post. We will not shy away from anything and will correct any mistakes we have or address any concerns you have.

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Nevermind
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #5 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 12:45pm »

Isn't it a bit inefficient to periodically hit the bookie websites from your own machine instead of receiving the arbs from a server stream?

I think limiting bookies is limiting choice and by limiting choice you force many people to bet on the same lines, which isn't any good because it may move the line even on major leagues and thus the arb ceases to exist.

So your service is by itself limited to small bankrolls because big bankrolls would hit the lines big in sum and things become harder, perhaps leaving you with one-sided bets.

Personally I don't like services luring people into arbitrage with cheap prices and creating competition that wouldn't exist (at least partially) otherwise. And since you offer your (basic) service for a lifetime subscription you rely on new people being lured into the service. Or how would you assure quality without their cash?

Last but not least, what is your policy on software updates? You have to provide them in order to cope with changing site structures, if I understand the concept of your software correctly.

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JuiceTrading
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #6 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 1:32pm »

Thanks for your feedback Nevermind. I hope I can properly answer your questions.

By having the program run on your computer, the lines are retrieved much faster because they are displayed instantly on your computer. Also, running on a server stream would mean that everyone on the service will be notified of the same arbs at the same time. So in theory, everyone would jump on at the same time to place the same wagers, which would cause the problem you mentioned of people betting the same lines and arbs ceasing to exist.

I don't think you can always solve the problem of users competing against each other for arbs, no matter how many books you have. But you can also look at it this way, if you have enough users slamming on one game enough to move the lines, you can move it enough to create more arbs for others.

Even though we have a limited amount of books available, I believe we still have enough books where you are forced to spread your bankroll out thin. An arb trader can take two different approaches. They can either spread their funds out through 20-50 books and make small trades, while constantly moving their money around. Or they can just stay with the big consistent books and make larger trades. Just a matter of preference, Quality or Quantity - we chose Quality.

You are only see'ing the surface of our services. Our primary business model isn't going to revolve around our Basic service. Our Basic service is designed for those who want to keep arb trading simple - just keep their money in a few familiar books and trade without much hassle. We are also working on a Pro version, which will be a monthly subscription if that'll help answer the question of quality.

Here are just some additional thoughts: There are now many different services out there. We are not trying to capture every customer possible. Our goal is to develop a nice small niche of customers that we can dedicate to. Once we reach a threshhold of customers where we are noticing too many arbs disappearing too fast, or too many of our customers are competing against each other, then we might have to limit how many customers we have.

I also have experience as a trader and have used some of the services. But in my experiences, having too many books can make your life a nightmare. It's not like we are going to put money into every book. Most people just keep their money in a limited number books that are consistent and make trades off of those books.

I hope I have addressed your questions.

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adamvallin
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #7 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:02pm »

Quote from JuiceTrading on Jan 15^th, 2007, 1:32pm:

...

Oh, so the thing you're marketing now is for newbies..
like i said earlier, you seem to be a good run company. you're doing things the way i would if i would have an arb service, at least this far.. any idea when the pro version will be out?

and last -- there's not much point in advertising your service as it is now like a madman at arbforum.. you can do that shit at aegists forum.. you know, that awful singapore website with ponzi ads and gullible asians everywhere (i mean, just look at the damn address.. www.dreamteammoney.com Grin

)

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Nevermind
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #8 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:06pm »

Thinking about your words, it's an interesting approach to take a individual view on the odds of a bookie. Creating new arbs with moving odds might be true and makes complete sense with the individual times of discovering arbs.

The basic variant is a nice marketing move if you offer a pro version in the future that really makes a difference. Wink

I see you rely on .Net (and so basically with Win32), will the Pro version also be like this? Ever thought about building something around Java, perhaps using Eclipse RCP or something? Wink

You said you can't disclose much about the Pro version. Maybe you could tell at least some things about it. Does it include a feature to directly go to the "place odds" screen of the users boookie account or something? Does it include tracking of the arbs so you don't have to do it manually? I saw some tools taking a semi-automatic approach to the tracking problem.

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adamvallin
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #9 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:10pm »

nevermind, i also think it's a good idea.. i think all the idiot gamblers who have heard of scalping but are not into it yet is a big, profitable and GULLIBLE market..

anyway, i was posting to ask juicetrading if the odds are searched directly from the html pages and not from the xml feeds? if so, you sure are skilled programmers!

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Nevermind
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #10 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:14pm »

Quote from adamvallin on Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:10pm:

nevermind, i also think it's a good idea.. i think all the idiot gamblers who have heard of scalping but are not into it yet is a big, profitable and GULLIBLE market..

I agree things look a bit odd with the newbie-ish "all you can eat" offer. But he doesn't talk complete nonsense, so yeah, there's still potential. As mentioned above, I think attracting newbies is still a nice marketing move.. I hope that's not what he means by talking of "niche" (talking about newbies).

Quote:

anyway, i was posting to ask juicetrading if the odds are searched directly from the html pages and not from the xml feeds? if so, you sure are skilled programmers!

Interesting point. I guess no bookie is giving away his feed to arb services, correct me if I'm wrong here. Because I don't know many bookies with (publicly available) feeds (whatever the format). Pinnacle is an outstanding example here.

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JuiceTrading
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #11 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:15pm »

adamvallin: I wouldn't say we're marketing to newbies. We're just offering a product that we hope is eaiser to use and makes the life of an arb trader easy. Arb Quality is our goal, not Arb Quantity. I'm not a programmer, so I really don't make the decision on platforms and will not even try to pretend to know. My background is business with an MBA in general business.

Nevermind: Unfortunately, I cannot release any information on the Pro version because we want to protect our concept - which we do not see anyone offering just yet. But believe me, we WILL make it worth it!

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JuiceTrading
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #12 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:19pm »

Quote from adamvallin on Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:10pm:

nevermind, i also think it's a good idea.. i think all the idiot gamblers who have heard of scalping but are not into it yet is a big, profitable and GULLIBLE market..

anyway, i was posting to ask juicetrading if the odds are searched directly from the html pages and not from the xml feeds? if so, you sure are skilled programmers!

We use html pages. Originally, we used XML feeds from Pinnacle, but that caused a lot of problems. The feeds were not accurate, so it caused a lot of false notifications. Also, Pinnacle has multiple lines for sports with spread, like NBA. The feed does not give all those lines. However, those lines are important when trading American Sports because of the +juice that they tend to offer, which creates more arb opportunities.

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Jenx
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Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE
« Reply #13 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:24pm »

Quote:

You do not have to worry about rule interpretations or different rules from different books, such as Tennis.

Allow me to correct you there. The tennis rules for Pinnacle and The greek are "2 sets complete". Betcris, Bowmans(b365), and carib are match completed...... a world of difference in 5 set majors.
Jenx.

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Jenx Seymours Lovechild Member I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1397 Reputation: 7	Re: New Juicetrading.com Arb Program - 1 Week FREE « Reply #14 - on: Jan 15^th, 2007, 2:25pm » Also if you put too many "hits" on a site like pinnacle they will block your IP address,as they did with me when I tried software before. Jenx.
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